Trying to feed in the music from my LPs into my computer

AnnL · Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 2

I am trying to feed in the music from my LPs into my computer via the soundcard so that I can obtain a digital recording to play on my Ipod.

I have a 20yo Kenwood amplifier attached to my record player. There are not many spare jacks sockets at the rear of it that I can use to output the LPs. The available jacks are labelled AUX (which appears to e for inputting sound to the amp) and DAT.

There are two pairs of DAT jack sockets - one pair is lableed "PAY IN" and the othe "REC OUT". From the dcumentationthere are "used to connect a DAT (DIgital Audio Tape) or an extra taped deck".

I am wondering if I could feed the output from DAT REC OUT into the computer. My soundcard has digital and analogue inputs. I thought the output from the DAT REC OUT might be digital - but I'm at present concerned that I might blow my computer up if I try this and it is incorrect.

Please can anyone advise me on the above - Am I on the right track or should I be doing something else completely different??

Would much appreciate your help

Thanks,
Ann

Brien · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:53 am Post subject:

"My soundcard has digital and analogue inputs." /quote

What kind, make, model is this sound card?

Terry · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:56 pm Post subject:

"used to connect a DAT (DIgital Audio Tape) or an extra tape deck".
Therein lies the clue.
The output from the amp is analog to be able to record to a standard tape deck.
The amp is analog so can only output an analog signal.
If the output is to a DAT the DAT recorder converts the signal to digital format on tape which is then converted back to analog for playback.
Tape was the format of choice for home recording but had inherent disadvantages with noise, tape hiss and speed variation.
By recording to a digital format these problems were overcome.
Twenty years ago DAT was seen as the way of the future for recording but
Mr. Gates had other ideas.
The digital input on your computer would only be of use if making a copy
from a unit with a digital output i.e. a mini disk deck.

AnnL · Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 2

Thanks you for answering my request.

My soundcard is an Audiophile 2496.It has the following inputs and outputs:

-Coaxial S/PDIF output. This RCA connector sends an S/PDIF stereo signal to a coaxial S/PDIF digital target device such as a DAT, minidisc player or external D/A converter.

- Coaxial S/PDIF input: This RCA connector receives an S/PDIF stereo signal from a coaxial S/PDIF digital source such as a DAT, Minidisc player or external A/D converter.

-Analog OUTS 1 & @. These jack output analog audio to a variety of extended sources. Each jack is a femal RCA, compatible with the common male RCA cables. DUring stereo operation, the OUT1 jack (with white coloured insert) is the left audio channel and OUT2 (with red-coloured insert) is the right audio channel.

-Analog INS 1 &2: These jacks input analog audio from a variety of external sources. Each jack is female RCA compatible with the common male RCA cables. DUring stereo operation, the OUT1 jack (with white coloured insert) is the left audio channel and OUT2 (with red-coloured insert) is the right audio channel.

Hope you can advice me further as to how to input my LPs into the PC and whether / how I can use to DAT output of my hi fi amplifier.

Thanks

AnnL[/quote]

Terry · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject:

Yes you can use the DAT output of your amp to input the signal
to your PC via the analog ins.
The output from the amp is analog which is converted to digital
by the recording device be it PC or DAT deck.
Basic setup:
Turntable to amp.
Amp (DAT/tape) out to analog ins.
You need an RCA male to RCA male stereo connecting cable.
A recording program.
The tracks will need to be trimmed to get rid of the silent bits from
the start and finish.
They will then need to be normalised to produce a consistant level.
If the LP tracks are very crackly you may need to clean them up with
a click/pop remover program.
If recorded in WAV format they will then need to be converted to MP3.
The S/PDIF connections are only used for a direct digital copy from
another device.

Brien · Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:08 am Post subject:

Terry wrote:

Yes you can use the DAT output of your amp to input the signal
to your PC via the analog ins.

I would recommend caution here. ADAT , in the power amp Ann has, was used to output a signal to an S-VHS type "tape" not an digital recording device. It also has no signal control, louder or softer, which would work in your favor...but will the transfer work with causing problems?
http://arts.ucsc.edu/ems/music/equipment/digital_recorders/Classic_ADAT.html

Terry wrote:

The tracks will need to be trimmed to get rid of the silent bits from
the start and finish.
They will then need to be normalised to produce a consistant level.

Once again, caution is key. When I was doing my brothers vinyl we discussed this issue. The albums have already been Mastered so if you maintain an untouched input signal to the recording source, you should have no signal anomalies that need conditioning.

Terry wrote:

If recorded in WAV format they will then need to be converted to MP3.

I just wouldn't offer this anyway, because...MP3 strips down the file and compresses the file as well. What you get will be a sonically noticable difference in the audio playback.

If your files are tracked as WAV files, I personally would not alter the file any further due to artifacts being introduced that lessen the sonic quality.

None of these things I have stated should be considered as taking away from what Terry has typed. His is advice as mine is advice.

I just think mine is better and can be supported if need be ;)

Good Luck Ms. Ann,

Brien

Terry · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:06 am Post subject:

Ann said:
"used to connect a DAT (DIgital Audio Tape) or an extra taped deck".

If going to an extra tape deck the signal would be "line level" so weather
going to DAT or standard tape the level is the same and can't be
adjusted. The recording level is adjusted in the recording device.

Terry said:

"The tracks will need to be trimmed to get rid of the silent bits from
the start and finish."

If recording the whole side of an LP in one go you are not able to select
a specific track without fast forwarding or rewinding.
I record as separate tracks which need trimming ie to the exact start and
finish. When playing back after burning the player automatically has a
short gap and so preserves the original concept without the crackly bits
in between. These would be more dominant when listening through ear pieces or headphones.

Terry said:

"They will then need to be normalised to produce a consistant level."

This is a personal choice.
To preserve the original concept the recording level needs to be set to
the loudest part of the loudest track and the setting left unchanged for
the rest of the LP.
With rock music the variation is usually not significant but with, say, classical music the dynamic range can be a lot greater.

Terry said:

"If recorded in WAV format they will then need to be converted to MP3. "

My thinking here is that Ann wants to transfer her tracks to an iPod.
Space on the drive might need to be considered.
As wav files take up a lot of space, as far as I'm aware, mp3 is the format
of choice. Wma is another option.
While wav is the way to go for sonic accuracy an iPod can't be
considered a Hi-Fi medium.

All this for what seemed a simple question in the first place!

Terry Smile

Brien · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:46 am Post subject:

In respect to normalizing....what if it is a very noisy track?
This is vinyl and it is a very old medium prone to scratches.
The noise is increased as well as the apparent loudness.

Who wants that? :)

Terry · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:47 am Post subject:

The scratches can be removed before normalising with a click and pop removal program.
I use Sound Forge 8 which has one inbuilt and gives excellent results.
There are also freebies around.
Depending on the condition of the LP some might still get through.
These can be reduced in intensity manually by selecting the click and lowering the volume of the selected part.
This applies to Sound Forge but should be available in other comparable DAWS.
Another little trick has to do with the way our ears work.
We can detect a click which lasts for two milliseconds but if it is replaced by silence we can't detect the silence. So muting the offending click might be an option.
There was a turntable years ago which used this method.
If a click was detected by the unit it muted it before going to the amp.
It depends on the editing program as to what facilities are available.

Terry Smile

Brien · Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:54 am Post subject:

Another trick is to use a mild soap and water (dish washing liquid) and "hand" clean the record before playing. This is very, very tricky business, don't want to saturate the record and lose the labels.

But it can have a profound effect on the clarity of the album...

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